Wolf Play : A Question for Artists
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A Question for ArtistsJanuary 16, 2024 02:10 PM


Argos

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Hey artists! This thought has been on my mind lately so I thought I'd share. What are y'all's opinions of A.I., particularly in the art world (be that animating, painting, dance, writing, etc)? Is it a tool, a threat, somewhere between, etc?
A Question for ArtistsJanuary 17, 2024 05:24 AM


Toffive

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I don't bother giving it much attention. I just make sure if I'm buying art—if it's original or AI. Nowadays you have to be careful when even buying adopts definitely from DA. A lot of good adopts and I'll admit this cause why lie 🤷🏽‍♀️; are AI. It's good to be like “ Shit this AI adopt is so pretty” and move on rather than battle something you can't fight. NOW people who do AI and claim they drew the bullshit are monsters. No respect.
A Question for ArtistsJanuary 17, 2024 01:43 PM


Polargeist

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I despise all AI who steal artists' work, no matter what it's used for. It's pure theft from unconsenting creators and it threatens many jobs like graphic design and freelancing
As a tool, yes, but not to create the works in themselves. Have AI take over the hard heavy work for us, not the artistic
A Question for ArtistsJanuary 20, 2024 06:08 PM


0Written The Wolf

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I'd like to start off by establishing that for me art is hobby. I am not practicing to one day seek a job in art industry or even sell my art for real money(well, more real than apples ^^""""); like second part is considerable maybe, still, art is something I like to do (most of the time) for myself and people who like OCs and art and creativity and stuff.
------

My subjective opinion on AI art: I admit I did not do extensive research on source material (my knowledge is based on YouTubers and other artists) and from what I heard I personally am a bit wary about it for 2 reasons.

->
1st some careers might go through some major changes or disappear-not something that never happened before-for example town criers is no longer a job due to education so all people now know how to read news and don't need someone to shout them int he streets, or people who used to light up street lamps; their job no longer exists cause of electricity. Newspaper sellers still exits(well I know of 1 guy), but newspapers started selling in regular stores and online. I'd also imagine that in most cities many people stopped working with horses after invention of cars. And while like law of nature is "adapt or die" I am not fully comfortable with idea of artists's numbers lowering ;-; though I strongly believe there will always be artists for humans have shown that they can and want to create art despite it's value being hard to estimate with money(stuff that world seems to revolve around and reason why some carer choices like art are harder to defend than lawyer, doctor, matchematician, programer etc.) in many time periods. Thou being able to live off of art without your family being rich due to other stuff became a thing in more recent times, it wasn't always like that, to be able to dedicate so much of your time to art and explore it and enrich it and spread it to other people.

->
2nd being that money would conquer art industry more than it already is (underpaying, extreme work hours), to turn it into a product to a higher degree than it is now. I don't think art having the ability to be a product is bad (trade of goods and stuff is long standing human practice that shapes societies), but abandoning all its qualites and atributes beyond pleasing looks and speed of production would be wrong cause in essence all art would look same in the end for it has one goal. I don't think creativity would disappear alltogether, but that it would become less mainstream.

---
Objective look at AI: well, it seems to be a tool or a new media. Like from what I know this is not the first time there was something new and major entering the art world, big changes have happened before and they did find their place and use-take a digital art for example ^^""" like stuff like inking is becoming relic of the past because making comics digitally is less risky, less cost, less time. And digital art is something some might be really pissed about cause 3D animation came from it and programers did make filters with which you can have 3D film that looks 2D, but stuff like flipping numerous pages to check on movement in animation or having backgrounds be painted on and still the whole time with characters being noticeably different(I find it charming) did go away from Disney. Digital art and 3D animation(on computers) is not soulless and bad, but it changed A LOT. And not only it looks different, but it also "lowered" mayhaps skill floor for some stuff-that skill thing is often brought up in discussions about AI art and should people who only use AI art be considered artists cause they gave a prompt and did a few tweaks to it? Like is there enough skill in it to view it worthy-welllllllllllllll um, I used to think no cause, you know, I strugle with my stuff and they just have a word and get amazing results, BUT then I remembered abstract art is a thing-where some artists do not need to know anime style or realism or american style comic or hyperrealism or pop art, nor things like anatomy, color theory, composition, perspective, shading and other hard to graps, but worth it art theory stuff that is useless without practing them-YET they can just arange random objects and call it art, or put a colored square on empty canvas or a dot or a line or just straight up empty canvas and call it emotionally deep and profound and ART and themselves ARTISTS and indeed, they are recognized by art community; not all of it, but my country has a museum of modern art and they showed us different stuff-some cool ones where you can interact with a board full of small platic sticks and you can literally put shapes into it and see it's impression on both sides, on one it protrudes, on other it is imprinted; or like how there a robot who cleans a fuild, but wil never be able to clean it due to its consitency and robot speed-there is poetry in it; thou we saw some-in my opinon-less impressive/borderline scam stuff(of topic, but I was amused/worried how our guide low-key hated modern art ^^"""") like they payed large sum of money to send two "artists" to a 7 day vacation so those 2 can buy a postcard from there and send it to musem-museum payed for their trip and a cheap postcard-it is art apparently cause no one though of that before- I just wanna know who the duck what like "hell yeah I will pay not my vacation and get a postcard in return" like what even is emotionally deep about it..? Postcards can hold emotional value, but this? Eh? Or how one person put 7 apples and one stick in specific "seemingly random# order and explained to museum it expresses their anger towards their family-not sure how apples or stick tie into that, they did not elaborate, but anyhow since apples rot this piece has to be refreshed every week-every week a mueseum wastes 7 perfectly fine edible apples in name of what... Uh, I ranted ^^""""""" My point is there are people who are considered artists with no artistic skills. Less intrusive idea is calling like kids or anyone who is creative an artist-like they are not pro, so I guess it is more honorable title for them and not a career so it ain't as problemtic.
P.S. I like abstract art too, not all, but there are great pieces.
P.P.S. Art is easy way to launder money-so you never know what's really up with some stuff.

---
Also there are many ideas on how AI works-like is it referncing art of others like humans do or is it stealing? People say that human referencing something is okay and different from mchine doing it-I am not sure why? I think we all learn from others and that is good and okay and we process it and make something "original" (I have bit of a beef with idea of originality-to sum it up-I think it is bit overhyped and it is not alpha and omega of an artpiece and idea of 100% originality all of the time is unrealistic), but if a machine under human guidance can make something new sorta/original why it would not count as art? If pile of apples can be considered art :'3

Most importantly I think it is not AI art itself that is a big issue, more so how it is being introduced and how eager non-artist/industry executives seem to be to replace most of their workforce. Those artist are fighting for their livehoods so even if they are in the wrong(I think they are mostly not) they will fight fiercely and for a good reason, humans fight for survival, always, no matter the form thier enemy takes. Also not paying artists whose art you took to train AI, but demanding money in order to let people use it is hypocrisy-like if artists helped make it, they deserve money for it. Also those people who target certain artists who openly spoke against AI art, mocking them by creating specific AI program that is fed only art of artist in question so everything it makes closely resembles it-that is just a form of bullying, they would probably bully with no AI too, but, yeah, onlien bullies/haters are probably not spreading a word of AI in best of lights.

Final final conclusion for real XD AI itself(code and machine part) seems okay, but people making decisions on it at the moment seem to ignore artists and be set on profit, they see no value in art besides bucks, as if it ain't a way to carry emotion, tell stories, majorly impact people, self-express; it is a tool in hands of wrong people doing wrong things.

Edited at January 20, 2024 06:37 PM by Written The Wolf
A Question for ArtistsJanuary 20, 2024 06:17 PM


0Written The Wolf

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Other subjects you might wish to explore are "bases" of F2U lineart-it exits here and on TH and DeviantArt and from what I saw-using it can imply that artist behind it has no skills beyond coloring, yet those people are not shunned by communities as long as they are open and honest about using them. Some artist even make "bases" for others to use, they like gifting others like that.
---
PhotoManip is also interesting topic cause it bridges photography(which itself is considered to be art, art that did not exist before camera may I add :3 it was born from it, a novely at it's time and I bet there were oil painters who hated it) and digital art and skills like color theory, composition and more-at some point it ain't photoshop that enchaces a photo, but a tool/media to built artworks :) I think it is subjective at what point of adding to photo you stop enchancing and start creating art, but still, as logn as you are open and honest about how you got your results, community seems peaceful-some like it, some don't, no hate thou.
---
And using stamps as well as shortcuts to make art might be interesting to look into as well.
A Question for ArtistsJanuary 20, 2024 06:20 PM


0Written The Wolf

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I think as mentioned, that it has a lot to do with intent of those who use it-in cases of "bases" and F2U linearts you have people who appreciate art and are not looking to make a quick buck. They actively engage in art, share ideas, some start working on more skills, some don't, yet they still respect and love art.
A Question for ArtistsJanuary 20, 2024 06:28 PM


0Written The Wolf

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Toffive said:
I don't bother giving it much attention. I just make sure if I'm buying art—if it's original or AI. Nowadays you have to be careful when even buying adopts definitely from DA. A lot of good adopts and I'll admit this cause why lie 🤷🏽‍♀️; are AI. It's good to be like “ Shit this AI adopt is so pretty” and move on rather than battle something you can't fight. NOW people who do AI and claim they drew the bullshit are monsters. No respect.


To add onto this about AI adopts-I think some inexperienced people get burned by buying them on idea that they are so pretty, and cheap eheeheh, without considering how much money it will require to hire artists of that high level of skills to create new art of that OC ^^"""
A Question for ArtistsJanuary 20, 2024 06:47 PM


Eternity

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AI generation, whether it be writing, artwork, video editing and even movies is already replacing the jobs of actual people.

As many have pointed out, Disney has been actively using AI to replace background actors and to fill in scenes rather than paying for background actors. It's actively replacing jobs in the place of saving costs and making more profits which is incredibly harmful. No question about it, AI is currently unmoderated, has no legal rammifications, and is actively taking people's jobs away - especially during the SAG-AFTRA strikes. Whilst I think many creative roles won't be entirely replaced by AI, I do think it may be impacted negatively and that the general public isn't really aware of why artists are so pressed over AI.

I'm a concept art student, that's something AI would struggle to replace as it requires sketches upon sketches upon sketches and responding to briefs rather than just creating a pretty and finalised image. It requires a lot of human input. However, I wouldn't put it past some studios or companies to simply use AI to cut costs - even if they'd get a worse product in the end.

Whilst I do think at it's core, AI isn't inherently harmful, the current lack of moderation and laws about it certainly is, and large corporations cannot be trusted to use it in a way that won't take away people's jobs in an already incredibly uncertain world. It's the last thing people need in the cost of living crisis happening all across the globe.

There's also the whole problem with copyright and how most of the large AI image generators have trained their AI models on artist's work without their consent - there's already been several lawsuits over this and though none of them have been successful yet, I think it's only a matter of time till one does.


Ignoring all of that, so many 'AI artists' aren't upfront about their use of using/selling AI generated images, which has lead to many consumers unknowingly buying AI generated images when they'd rather not. Many AI images on sites like Deviantart as mislabeled and feature no indication that it's an AI generation, which I think is inherently dishonest. Hell, even going as far to try and post it on sites where AI generated images aren't allowed and then claim it's not AI art when reported or confronted, when it so obviously is.

If an AI image generator is created from sources/stock it has consent to use and isn't just indiscrimately pulled from every corner of the internet, and is being used in a way that is responsible and isn't going to harm the general population, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but there's so few generators actually like this from what I can see.

Anyway, I'm not the most well-researched person in the world and would highly recommend anyone who is concerned to go and read up on it themselves. Here's a few articles to start with.

https://readwrite.com/midjourney-ai-art-program-faces-lawsuit-over-alleged-use-of-magic-the-gathering-art/
https://www.backstage.com/magazine/article/sag-aftra-ai-deal-explained-76821/

TLDR; Anyway, if you hadn't guessed, I'm very against AI, especially AI artwork. Just learn how to draw like the rest of us 😭
A Question for ArtistsJanuary 21, 2024 08:25 AM


Toffive

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Damn, I didn't know they were using AI for actors.
A Question for ArtistsJanuary 21, 2024 11:04 AM


Dawnforest

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Just a question for people. How can you tell if art is AI generated? Despite all the weird things like extra hands/ floating items.

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